Why most recent bios/driver are slower ?

Peripherals, parts, data storage...
Jey
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Why most recent bios/driver are slower ?

Post by Jey » Mon Nov 14, 2005 7:37 pm

Hello.

I'm new on the forum. Sorry for my bad english :/


I have a BP6 + 2xceleron 500 (66*7.5 2v).
3x 128 Mo PC100
BIOS : 1.30b - http://www.bp6.com/board/dload.php?acti ... y&cat_id=8

I use 2 "80 wire cable IDE" (UDMA66).

Bios 1.30b

XP Pro SP1

IBM 27 Go (UDM4 by HPT366):
- Driver 1.30 (XP Driver) : 10 Mo/s
- Driver 1.28 (2K Driver) : 10 Mo/s
- Driver 1.26 (2K Driver) : 10 Mo/s
- Driver 1.251 (2K Driver) : 21 Mo/s (max HD's speed ?)
- Driver 1.231 (2K Driver) : 21 Mo/s (max HD's speed ?)

WD 20 Go (on second IDE cable, or freeze on OS boot) (UDM3 by HPT366) :
- Driver 1.30 (Xp driver) : no test
- Driver 1.28 (2K Driver) : no test
- Driver 1.26 (2K Driver) : 10 Mo/s
- Driver 1.251 (2K Driver) : 27 Mo/s (max HD's speed ?)
- Driver 1.231 (2K Driver) : 27 Mo/s (max HD's speed ?)



On classic IDE (UDMA33), I have ~30 Mo/s (normal data rate).


What is the solution ?
Why most recent drivers are slower?

... :(

Thx !

ums57
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new & slow

Post by ums57 » Mon Dec 05, 2005 3:56 pm

have actually recognised the same problem, max 10MB/s on HPT366...

nwe XP Pro SP2 after Mobo-work ( Cap change )

has anyone an good idea?

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Thu Dec 08, 2005 1:34 am

The two of you are not the first people to notice this anomaly. You might wish to visit http://www.ruwebit.net/article/64/chapter/2 for a discussion of this subject.

The article actually begins on an earlier page at:
http://www.ruwebit.net/article/64

I believe that the link in the files section of the article for "RU" BIOS with HPT 1.25 drivers still functions. I am using this hybrid BIOS and have experienced no problems. (The custom boot logo is also attractive.) The same file may appear here somewhere in the "downloads" section but I have not searched for it here.

Best Regards,

s4

KliK
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Post by KliK » Thu Dec 08, 2005 3:28 pm

how do you update only HPT366 BIOS...i've seen drivers at highpoint homepage, downloaded them...but I don't know which BIOS is for HPT366 device on BP6 board? and the LOAD.EXE gives me 5 choises I've never heard off!!!

so if somebody can help me with that?!

jaybird
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Post by jaybird » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:50 pm

I don't know which BP6 BIOS you are running but, the most stable for me has been the BP6 RU BIOS with the HPT 1.28 BIOS and the HPT 1.25 drivers.

I can't seem to be able to download ANYTHING from the BIOS tab here at BP6.COM at this time :?:

Hope our "moderator" see this!

Regards,

jaybird

KliK
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Post by KliK » Thu Dec 08, 2005 4:56 pm

look at this page:
http://www.highpoint-tech.com/USA/bios_hpt366.htm


how to put that HPT 1,25 BIOS on RV version of my MBO!!!

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:59 pm

KliK,

The BIOS files located on the HighPoint page you refer to are for add-in expansion boards only. The application "load.exe" is a program to flash HighPoint's expansion boards. This application cannot be used to change the BIOS on your motherboard.

Keep in mind that the "RV" BIOS was created by a member here who hacked the "RU" BIOS and added support for several processors that the BP6 motherboard does not officially support. It is not an "official" Abit BIOS version.

If you feel a need for "RV" BIOS with HPT 1.25 perhaps you should start a separate topic with a topic title and body text indicating that you are asking one of the people here who is capable of hacking motherboard BIOS to create a new version with this combination.

Many of the original contributors here have moved on or lost interest so you may or may not receive an offer to create a new BIOS version.

Good Luck!

Best Regards,

s4

KliK
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Post by KliK » Fri Dec 09, 2005 5:30 am

OK, I rolled back the flash, and now I use ABIT's RU version with 1,25 HPT366 device...on WinXP+SP2 with 1.30b drivers still have 10MB/s...so I'm going to roll back the WinXP drivers also...

but, can anybody tell me is the 1,25 or 1,28 BIOS version better for HPT366, when comparing the performance of the device!?

soon, here will be mine results with 1,25BIOS HPT366, and different drivers...

KliK
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Post by KliK » Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:16 am

mine results:

all the time using the BP6 w. hpt366, WinXP+SP2, WDC 80GB HDD (8MB cache) with 80 pin UDMA 133 cabel!


RU BIOS w. 1.25 HPT366 (http://www.bp6.com/board/dload.php?acti ... &file_id=2)
1.30b drivers: 10MB/s
1.25.1 drivers: 10MB/s

RV BIOS w. 1.30b HPT366 (http://www.bp6.com/board/dload.php?acti ... file_id=52)
1.30b drivers: 10MB/s
1.25.1 drivers: 10MB/s


so what is the catch?! what are you using to get different results?!
also, can anybody else post their results?! for benchmark I've been usin the SiSoft Sandra 2005...

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Fri Dec 09, 2005 11:21 am

KliK,

1) If I remember correctly, WD drives are shipped with a software utility which allows users to enable or disable UDMA performance for a specific drive. The utility works only in DOS and it is supplied on a bootable diskette. Use this utility to verify that UDMA has not been disabled on your drive, and enable it if it has been disabled. (Your drive may have been locked in PIO or UDMA 33 mode with this utility.) (Edit follows) It may also be necessary to force your drive to operate in UDMA 66 mode with this utility rather than one of its available faster modes to make it compatible with the HPT366 controller. My WD drive cannot operate in a mode faster than UDMA 66 so I do not know how the HPT366 controller would react if your drive is locked at UDMA 133 or something similar.

2) Verify that your drive is connected to the HighPoint IDE port on your motherboard. The HighPoint motherboard sockets are colored white. The normal IDE (ATA 33) sockets are black.

3) Verify that you have not connected any optical drives (CDROM, DVDROM) to the HighPoint controller. The HighPoint controller does not support optical drives and behaves in an unpredictable fashion when such a drive is connected.

4) Only a few people have had success connecting a boot drive to the HighPoint controller. I have not been able to make this work reliably. I do not suggest that connecting a boot drive be attempted.

5) During a normal boot attempt type the key sequence "Ctrl H" ("Strg H") when the ugly blue HighPoint screen appears. This should present you with screens allowing you to set the transfer mode for your drives which are connected to the HighPoint controller. Assign a transfer mode of "4" (UDMA 66) for your drive. This is the fastest transfer mode that the HPT366 allows.

6) I do not have access to SiSoft Sandra so I cannot provide a benchmark indicator of my drive performance for your review. It is remotely possible that the statistics that SiSoft reports are not correct. Try a different benchmarking utility if possible.

7) Drink a beer, take a few aspirins and post back here with your results, please.

Regards,

s4

KliK
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Post by KliK » Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:29 pm

s4brains wrote:KliK,

1) If I remember correctly, WD drives are shipped with a software utility which allows users to enable or disable UDMA performance for a specific drive. The utility works only in DOS and it is supplied on a bootable diskette. Use this utility to verify that UDMA has not been disabled on your drive, and enable it if it has been disabled. (Your drive may have been locked in PIO or UDMA 33 mode with this utility.) (Edit follows) It may also be necessary to force your drive to operate in UDMA 66 mode with this utility rather than one of its available faster modes to make it compatible with the HPT366 controller. My WD drive cannot operate in a mode faster than UDMA 66 so I do not know how the HPT366 controller would react if your drive is locked at UDMA 133 or something similar.
well i didn't get no diskette with the WDC...but when i visited WDC homepage, i did find this:

Data Transfer Rate (maximum)
- Buffer to Host
100 MB/s (Mode 5 Ultra ATA)
66.6 MB/s (Mode 4 Ultra ATA)
33.3 MB/s (Mode 2 Ultra ATA)
16.6 MB/s (Mode 4 PIO)
16.6 MB/s (Mode 2 multi-word DMA)

- Buffer to Disk
602 Mbits/s maximum


also did find some diagnostic, so i'll check those!!!

also, if UDMA 3 is shtg between UDMA 2 (33.3MB/s) and UDMA 4 (66.6MB/s), it should give me more that 10MB/s from HDD...so i think it's not the HDD that is the problem!!!
s4brains wrote: 2) Verify that your drive is connected to the HighPoint IDE port on your motherboard. The HighPoint motherboard sockets are colored white. The normal IDE (ATA 33) sockets are black.
well I ain't drunk not to speak about that and post results about unconnected HDD, or connected to EIDE controller on BX440 chipset!
s4brains wrote: 3) Verify that you have not connected any optical drives (CDROM, DVDROM) to the HighPoint controller. The HighPoint controller does not support optical drives and behaves in an unpredictable fashion when such a drive is connected.
of course not, 'cause the system would boot WinXP with that!
s4brains wrote: 4) Only a few people have had success connecting a boot drive to the HighPoint controller. I have not been able to make this work reliably. I do not suggest that connecting a boot drive be attempted.
for me it works...the WDC800JB is the PM on HPT366! and boot without any error...
s4brains wrote: 5) During a normal boot attempt type the key sequence "Ctrl H" ("Strg H") when the ugly blue HighPoint screen appears. This should present you with screens allowing you to set the transfer mode for your drives which are connected to the HighPoint controller. Assign a transfer mode of "4" (UDMA 66) for your drive. This is the fastest transfer mode that the HPT366 allows.
well all it gives me is the PIO 1,2,3,4; MultiWord DMA 1,2; UDMA 0,1,2,3!

not UDMA 4!?!?!
and the HPT366 has 1,30b BIOS on it...but i think it's the problem in it, 'cause it would have to give me the UDMA 4 option, even if HDD wouldn't support it!!! right?!
s4brains wrote: 6) I do not have access to SiSoft Sandra so I cannot provide a benchmark indicator of my drive performance for your review. It is remotely possible that the statistics that SiSoft reports are not correct. Try a different benchmarking utility if possible.
in which program did you do your benchmarking then?!
s4brains wrote: 7) Drink a beer, take a few aspirins and post back here with your results, please.
i'll drink when this is over, and it works!!!
s4brains wrote: Regards,

s4

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Fri Dec 09, 2005 1:27 pm

The WD utility is labeled "Data Lifeguard Tools". The most recent version I have is "10." There may be newer versions available.

My WD drive is an old 40 GB model. I have HighPoint configured for "UDMA 4".

Hehe, I had never bothered to benchmark anything before this discussion began. I downloaded "HD Tach" mentioned in the ruewbit site and installed because it's small and free to provide you with something to refer to. It reports a "peak" transfer rate of about 45 point something Mbps. for my drive. (This low value concerns me but HD Tach reported a much, much lower peak for my Seagate UDMA 33 boot drive connected to the normal motherboard IDE connectors.)

I don't know if it is possible, but perhaps the HPT366 controller is responding differently because your drive is configured as a boot drive.

Start drinking now! This could take awhile.

KliK
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Post by KliK » Sat Dec 10, 2005 6:22 am

I searched a little more in SiSoft Sandra...and the disk on HPT366 is locked on 10MB/s...even though I have put it on UDMA 3 or UDMA 2, in WinXP is recognized as PIO-4!?!?!

so there must be some error in the device or device drivers, right?!

also Sandra reports that HPT366 can only work in PIO or MW DMA setting...so guy help?! Derek, jaybird, s4brains, anybody?!

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Sat Dec 10, 2005 10:44 am

KliK,

The best solution that I can offer you without hands-on access to your PC is to suggest that you buy a Promise or Maxtor brand "Ultra 100" ATA adapter card and attach your drive to it once you have installed the card in your PC. Promise Tech made the cards for Maxtor and they are the same except for the label. You should be able to find one of these cards on eBay for $10-15 (U.S.). After you obtain the card, I suggest that you locate a firmware flash update for the card because most of the original cards do not have support for drives larger than 137 GB (120 GB decimal). If you do not update, you run the risk of data corruption if you later add a disk larger than your current 80 GB WD drive.

I have one of these cards which I will likely install in my BP6 if my 550 MHz AMD K6-2 machine ever dies. The K6-2 machine is currently used as a media server for my home entertainment center and contains 240 GB of MPEG video and *.mp3's on 80 GB and 160 GB drives.

Although I have heard that the HighPoint added support for large drives to the HPT366 with version 1.25 BIOS, I have never been able to confirm this and I hesitate to add a large drive to the HighPoint controller on the BP6.

s4

KliK
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now I'm totally confused!

Post by KliK » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:06 pm

my computer looks like:
it has RU version of BIOS modified by Ruby, with HPT366 v1.28 and 1.25.1 version of HPT366 drivers on WinXP SP2.

IDE controller:
PM - CDRW (Auto in BIOS)
PS - WDC400BB
SM - IBM-DPTA-371360
SS - DVD (Auto in BIOS)

HPT366 controller with BIOS version 1.28:
PM - WDC800JB (set on UDMA 4)


WinXP device menager says:
PM - MWDMA2
PS - UDMA2
SM - PIO?!?!?! (even though "DMA if available" is ON)
SS - PIO (also "DMA if available" is ON)

HPT366
PM - ????


In SiSoft Sandra 2005:
ATA 0 controller - WDC400BB set on UDMA2
ATA 1 contreller - IBM-DPTA-371360 set on UDMA2 ?!?!?!
ATA 2 controller - WDC800JB set on MWDMA2 (privius to this writing it was set on PIO mode..., but also in that report Sandra says that only PIO4 and MWDMA2 are avaliable for this HDD or HPT366 device...so it must be it!!!) :(
also MWDMA is confirmed in TuneUp Utilities 2006!

and in benchmark HPT366 with WDC800JB still has 10MB/s!!! (don't forget that the MWDMA2 has 16,6MB/s index!)



so can anybody tell me, can there be more that 2 HDD on UDMA setting?! maybe that is the problem...
but those are all confusing data!!!
so did some tumble with the settings in HPT BIOS?!?!
i would rule out the drivers, 'cause the were the same for the last 3 BIOS versions I put!!! they work fine...and you said that with 1.25.1 you got the best results!!!

s4brain question:
what BIOS do you have?!
if it's not RV, how did you put HPT366 BIOS v1.30b?!

KliK
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Post by KliK » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:13 pm

s4brains wrote: 6) I do not have access to SiSoft Sandra so I cannot provide a benchmark indicator of my drive performance for your review. It is remotely possible that the statistics that SiSoft reports are not correct. Try a different benchmarking utility if possible.

you got SiSoft Sandra Lite 2005 SR3 version on www.download.com !
just wqrite sandra in search engine, and it will pop on top...

s4brains
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Re: now I'm totally confused!

Post by s4brains » Sat Dec 10, 2005 12:39 pm

KliK wrote: so can anybody tell me, can there be more that 2 HDD on UDMA setting?! maybe that is the problem...
Yes, more than (2) UDMA drives are supported by "most" controllers. I have not tried this with the HPT366 so I cannot say with certainty that this controller supports multiple UDMA drives.

s4brain question:
what BIOS do you have?!
if it's not RV, how did you put HPT366 BIOS v1.30b?!
See my first post in this discussion. I DO NOT use HPT BIOS 1.30

s4

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Sat Dec 10, 2005 1:44 pm

KliK,

Aha! The thought just occurred to me that the difficulties that you describe could be the result of failing to install HighPoint Device drivers in WinXP or improperly installed device drivers.

In WinXP's device manager you should have (2) instances under the tab "SCSI and Raid controllers" of an item for "HighPoint Technology Hpt366 Ultra DMA 66 controller". If you have no entries or only one entry then you have not properly installed the device drivers.

Instructions for installing the drivers in WinXP can be found elsewhere on this website.

s4

KliK
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Post by KliK » Sun Dec 11, 2005 5:57 am

s4brains wrote: In WinXP's device manager you should have (2) instances under the tab "SCSI and Raid controllers" of an item for "HighPoint Technology Hpt366 Ultra DMA 66 controller". If you have no entries or only one entry then you have not properly installed the device drivers.

I have both of them installed, and the driver version is 1.25.1!
What is your version?!

also I have at on disk 1.28.1 and 1.30.1b, but in this forum it's said that they do have probelm and are restricted to 10MB/s!!!
also, I have contacted Highpoint with email, maybe they know where is the problem?!

KliK
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Re: now I'm totally confused!

Post by KliK » Sun Dec 11, 2005 6:06 am

s4brains wrote: Yes, more than (2) UDMA drives are supported by "most" controllers. I have not tried this with the HPT366 so I cannot say with certainty that this controller supports multiple UDMA drives.

actually my question was, if i have already 2 HDD on UDMA setting, maybe 3rd won't work on HPT366 device!?!
s4brains wrote: See my first post in this discussion. I DO NOT use HPT BIOS 1.30

s4
So you are using modified RU w 1.25 HPT366 BIOS!
is it the Roby's modified RU or the other guys BIOS (F. Mouta)?!?

the guy that started this forum said it uses 1.30b HPT366 BIOS...so it must be with the drivers issue...i'll check that later, and have a look at them!
I have some idea and now I'm going to make it work!


also, did you found the SiSoft Sandra?!

KliK
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Post by KliK » Sun Dec 11, 2005 8:41 am

TO ALL THE GUYS WITH THIS PROBLEM:

(this article use at your own risk! also be sure to make system restore point, before you make this ajustement!!!)

just install the 1.25.1 version of drivers in WinXP and restert the system! test the drive, and if it's still on 10MB/s, than go to drivers and copy the file HPT366.SYS into the (drive):\WINDOWS\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS and all other directories where you find HPT366.SYS (be sure to search within the hidden and system folders!)
the 1.25.1 HPT366.SYS is about 20KB, and the others (newer) are bigger...after you have finished that, restart the computer!
don't expect much, 'cause mine system still boots in 4 minutes (too much programs, but that's why i run it 24/7)...but it got me results of 36MB/s in MWDMA2 setting (even though MWDMA2 can only transfer 16,6MB/s?!?!?!)... :D


now, I'm searching to find a way to switch it to UDMA setting (the 1.28 HPT366 BIOS offers me UDMA4)...I'll be back to post some more fixes!!! or somebody can fill me back in, how to switch to UDMA setting in WinXP SP2?!

Jordan
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this is bizarre!

Post by Jordan » Sun Dec 11, 2005 11:44 pm

I have the same problems with the HPT366
BUT - i'm running the 1.22 HPT bios. I think i will follow the advices on this post, and hopefully i can get the good transfer rates.

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:04 am

KliK,

It sounds to me like you had multiple versions of HighPoint drivers simultaneously installed In the Windows folder which resulted in a corrupt installation. Let's hope that others are not similarly faced with such a goofed up situation and find it necessary to follow your instructions. I have never even seen a driver that was not right around 20 KB in size. You must have had a copy of the driver present that was from version 1.22 or earlier. I have not looked at BIOS or drivers of version 1.22 or earlier because I dont think that support for drives at even the 80 GB size level was added until revision 1.22.

I am using neither Roby's modified RU nor the other guys BIOS (F. Mouta) but instead I am using the BIOS obtained from the Ruwebit site. I have answered your question about this several times. I do not know how to say what I'm using in a clearer fashion. I don't think your eyes hear very well even though I have said it in clear typewritten text. <grin> I prefer the Abit logo in the Ruwebit version. I think it is silly to display a Linux "penguin" on a Windoze machine.

I am pleased to hear that you have made progress in making the controller work correctly, although I am concerned about your claim of "it got me results of 36MB/s in MWDMA2 setting (even though MWDMA2 can only transfer 16,6MB/s)". If something sounds too good to be true it usually is too good to be true. There is something wrong because I don't think multi-word DMA is capable of supporting a transfer rate that fast.

Regards,

s4

s4brains
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Post by s4brains » Mon Dec 12, 2005 5:06 am

duplicate post deleted
s4

KliK
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Post by KliK » Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:05 am

s4brains wrote:KliK,

It sounds to me like you had multiple versions of HighPoint drivers simultaneously installed In the Windows folder which resulted in a corrupt installation. Let's hope that others are not similarly faced with such a goofed up situation and find it necessary to follow your instructions. I have never even seen a driver that was not right around 20 KB in size. You must have had a copy of the driver present that was from version 1.22 or earlier. I have not looked at BIOS or drivers of version 1.22 or earlier because I dont think that support for drives at even the 80 GB size level was added until revision 1.22.
yes, seems like i had 1.25.1, 1.28.1 and 1.30.1 version of the drivers on my computer...and to fix that i had to copy only HPT366.SYS file from 1.25.1 driver, which is 20,3KB in size in that directory i have said earlier...so now it's ok!
s4brains wrote: I am using neither Roby's modified RU nor the other guys BIOS (F. Mouta) but instead I am using the BIOS obtained from the Ruwebit site. I have answered your question about this several times. I do not know how to say what I'm using in a clearer fashion. I don't think your eyes hear very well even though I have said it in clear typewritten text. <grin> I prefer the Abit logo in the Ruwebit version. I think it is silly to display a Linux "penguin" on a Windoze machine.
well, could you post me that web site on this forum...I and the others would like to download those BIOSes also!
maybe even put them to use...'cause RU modified by Ruby is ok, but i don't think it's stable like RV was!
s4brains wrote: I am pleased to hear that you have made progress in making the controller work correctly, although I am concerned about your claim of "it got me results of 36MB/s in MWDMA2 setting (even though MWDMA2 can only transfer 16,6MB/s)". If something sounds too good to be true it usually is too good to be true. There is something wrong because I don't think multi-word DMA is capable of supporting a transfer rate that fast.

Regards,

s4

well the problem is that PM device on EIDE adapter is on MWDMA2, and that is CDRW! maybe SiSoft Sandra is seeing that, and cannot tell the difference betweeen them... ;)
so now my compute has 36MB/s from teoretical 66MB/s...that is about 55% on loaded HDD with lots of files...I think i can live with that!!! :D

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