Is XP SP2 ok to use now...why would I want to?

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davd_bob
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Is XP SP2 ok to use now...why would I want to?

Post by davd_bob »

Im asking for help from my trusted advisors(and friends) here instead of doing a search and reading stuff unknown folks have to say.

My wife has XP Home SP1 on her pc and wants to know if SP2 is better now then it was. The last time some created a new post in this section was well over a year ago and everything seemed like SP2 was a bad idea then.

I find myself wondering if it is improved enough yet to install.

What advantages and what disadvantages.
Last edited by davd_bob on Tue Jan 03, 2006 12:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is XP SP2 ok to use now...why would I want to?

Post by Billl »

davd_bob wrote:Im asking for help from my trusted advisors here instead of doing a search and reading stuff unknown folks have to say.

My wife has XP Home SP1 on her pc and wants to know if SP2 is better now then it was. The last time some created a new post in this section was well over a year ago and everything seemed like SP2 was a bad idea then.

I find myself wondering if it is improved enough yet to install.

What advantages and what disadvantages.
Ok Dave I'll give you my take on this. I've got something like 15 systems running here. All of them with some version of Windows on them. Most are XP with the latest service pack. So I think this gives me a little better idea about what I'm talking about then most people running just one or two sytems. Anyway I've not had any problems with SP2 so far. It can at times be a bit annoying. It likes to alert me whenever my AV is out of date. I use a free version called AntiVir and it doesn't auto update. I wouldn't put much faith in the Firewalls ability to protect you though. Since it is a one way only wall. But then if your on broadband and your not behind a hardware router then I think you pretty much get what you deserve. I still have one system I built a couple years back that just has SP1 on it. Like you I was reluctant at first to even consider it. I think now they pretty much have the bugs worked out. I just haven't installed it because I don't really see the need to. Like I said if your not behind a router you pretty much deserve what you get. As to XP's stability, reguardless what the Linux fananics will tell you, it's rock solid period. I haven't seen a Blue Screen in ages. Yes some applications do crash. It rarely ever actually brings down the system though. Most of mine up untill Clasic shut down were on 24/7 CPU at 100% for months straight. Of course Microsoft still thinks you need to reboot after every patch. Which is annoying. But other than that my systems are never off. Hope this is some help to you.

Just my .02


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Re: Is XP SP2 ok to use now...why would I want to?

Post by davd_bob »

Billl wrote:Ok Dave I'll give you my take on this. I've got something like 15 systems running here. All of them with some version of Windows on them. Most are XP with the latest service pack. So I think this gives me a little better idea about what I'm talking about then most people running just one or two sytems. Anyway I've not had any problems with SP2 so far. It can at times be a bit annoying...
Thanks for telling this. Im sure others perusing the site will benifit as well as me. I hope your excellent response doesn't discourage someone else from responding. We ALL wish we had 15 systems. :bananaextended:
Billl wrote:...I use a free version called AntiVir(it doesn't auto update)...
Post a link. :tap:
Billl wrote:I wouldn't put much faith in the Firewalls ability to protect you though. Since it is a one way only wall. But then if your on broadband and your not behind a hardware router then I think you pretty much get what you deserve...Like I said if your not behind a router you pretty much deserve...
I have a spare P-II266. Would that be good enough to build a firewall? :invi_blink:
Billl wrote:As to XP's stability, reguardless what the Linux fanatics will tell you, it's rock solid period. I haven't seen a Blue Screen in ages. Yes some applications do crash. It rarely ever actually brings down the system though...
Now that you mention it, I don't think Ive ever seen BOSD on her PC in 22months weve owned it. :bounce:
Billl wrote:Hope this is some help to you.
Well, DUH. Your experience is EXACTLY the kind of response I was hoping to read. :coolman:
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Re: Is XP SP2 ok to use now...why would I want to?

Post by Billl »

davd_bob wrote:
Billl wrote:Ok Dave I'll give you my take on this. I've got something like 15 systems running here. All of them with some version of Windows on them. Most are XP with the latest service pack. So I think this gives me a little better idea about what I'm talking about then most people running just one or two systems. Anyway I've not had any problems with SP2 so far. It can at times be a bit annoying...
davd_bob wrote:Thanks for telling this. I'm sure others perusing the site will benefit as well as me. I hope your excellent response doesn't discourage someone else from responding. We ALL wish we had 15 systems. :bananaextended:


Not my intent to discourage anyone else from responding. I'm sure there are lots of other opinions out there.
Billl wrote:...I use a free version called AntiVir(it doesn't auto update)...
davd_bob wrote:Post a link. :tap:


Sorry I just figured anyone interested enough would Just Google it. http://www.free-av.com/
Billl wrote:I wouldn't put much faith in the Firewall's ability to protect you though. Since it is a one way only wall. But then if your on broadband and your not behind a hardware router then I think you pretty much get what you deserve...Like I said if your not behind a router you pretty much deserve...
davd_bob wrote:I have a spare P-II266. Would that be good enough to build a firewall? :invi_blink:


I'm sure it would work fine, Linux would be the obvious choice. Maybe something like Smoothwall? I'm sure the Linux Guru's here could guide you better then I can. Personally though I'm not so sure it is the best choice over say a dedicated device. The beauty of a hardware firewall is it's just that nothing more nothing less. And if energy conservation is part of your goal it uses less then any PC you could use. But if cheap is your only aim then an existing system would certainly be cheaper initially.
Billl wrote:As to XP's stability, regardless what the Linux fanatics will tell you, it's rock solid period. I haven't seen a Blue Screen in ages. Yes some applications do crash. It rarely ever actually brings down the system though...
davd_bob wrote:Now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen BOSD on her PC in 22months we've owned it. :bounce:


Yes my point exactly. XP really is very solid.
Billl wrote:Hope this is some help to you.
davd_bob wrote:Well, DUH. Your experience is EXACTLY the kind of response I was hoping to read. :coolman:
Glad I was of some help then.


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Post by KliK »

So far, I've had no problems with SP2, exept one: the firewall on SP2 is good, but some time ago someone hacked into computer and used it for a spam server...100MB over the night...from that day i installed ZoneAlarm Firewall, which also has Spyware search inside & Antivirus (which is desabled)...and for Antivirus I use good old Norton Antivirus, which on DSL (which is on 24/7) allways downloads latest updates for viruses...

In mine humble opinion (and I run 3 systems at home, and supervise 30) SP2 is better and quicker that WinXP alone or with SP1...it really speed mine aplications and security is 5 steps more...
Anyway, if someone posted some probelms with SP2, that were only the guys that don't know or don't use any firewall or virus protection on their systems...so it was all knew to them!

also, in SP2, you cannot run DOS aplications (8 bit) nor 16-bit aplications...in other to do so, you would have to hack a little system...I cannot search now, but I think you can find it if you put the keywords in Google...

have fun,

KLiK :D
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Post by davd_bob »

Klik,
Ummm, No DOS apps... I guess its comittment time. Her store runs on a network version of a DOS app. I really don't even like the possability of putting those recored on her PC anyway because now that she has broadband I know it would get hacked sooner or later, so I guess I will break the bad news to her that she can have the I-net or access to the store from her office. Wait, I could set up a dual boot system I guess.

Billl,(or anyone else)
Cheap is my middle name. Is there maybe a hardware firewall thats been out for a while so its not in hot demand anymore but can still be trusted as secure.
Its that or use the P-III/266 that boots LINUX from a CD configured to my needs(what a chore this is becoming).

Ya know, I used to love tinkering with computers, but now that I actually need to get things right in a timely manner, Im getting bored with the whole thing. In nearly 2 years since joining this site I STILL havent got a handle on LINUX. I may have a "garage sale" pretty soon.
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Post by KliK »

like i said, you can run DOS apps, but with the hack in WinXP...in oder to do so, you must configure SP2 to run the 8 & 16-bit apps...
so check these sites:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.as ... -US;314106
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/142026/

or this:
http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/news.php?show_news=1


for multiboot try this link:
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/usin ... iboot.mspx
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Post by Billl »

davd_bob wrote:Billl,(or anyone else)
Cheap is my middle name. Is there maybe a hardware firewall thats been out for a while so its not in hot demand anymore but can still be trusted as secure.
Most Routers are well under $70.00 US funds. If you don't need wireless then you can easily buy one for less then $50.00.
davd_bob wrote:Its that or use the P-III/266 that boots LINUX from a CD configured to my needs(what a chore this is becoming).
Their is one version I know of that uses just a floppy drive.
davd_bob wrote:Ya know, I used to love tinkering with computers, but now that I actually need to get things right in a timely manner, Im getting bored with the whole thing. In nearly 2 years since joining this site I STILL havent got a handle on LINUX. I may have a "garage sale" pretty soon.
Well if you want simple then it's hard to beat a router over a PC. As to Linux like you I just don't see the point. I know Windows and for the most part it just works for me.

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Post by purrkur »

davd_bob wrote: Billl,(or anyone else)
Cheap is my middle name. Is there maybe a hardware firewall thats been out for a while so its not in hot demand anymore but can still be trusted as secure.
Its that or use the P-III/266 that boots LINUX from a CD configured to my needs(what a chore this is becoming).
Billl already mentioned Smoothwall so I'll do another plug for it. I am using Smoothwall on an old...<let me check>...266MHz pentium II with 128 megs of memory. 128 is actually overkill. Anyways, I am running it with 3 network cards, one for internet, one for DMZ and the third for my internal network. It really works great and it is easy to administrate and gives more options than one of those boxed things.

What i would really like is to get it set up on a USB stick. Those don't cost that much these days and it would remove the noise and heat generation from a harddrive that does almost nothing anyways.

If you go to www.smoothwall.org then you will see that they already have a version 3.0 out in an Alpha release. I don't know how long it will take them to release stable but from what I gather, it will be even easier to set up and administrate. Everything is done through the web like with boxed hardware firewalls, but you can log on with SSH and do stuff manually if you are feeling adventurous.

Anyhow, it is a great product with great documentation and a great forum if you run into problems. It is also free. Highly recommended.
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Post by Billl »

purrkur wrote:
davd_bob wrote: Billl,(or anyone else)
Cheap is my middle name. Is there maybe a hardware firewall thats been out for a while so its not in hot demand anymore but can still be trusted as secure.
Its that or use the P-III/266 that boots LINUX from a CD configured to my needs(what a chore this is becoming).
Billl already mentioned Smoothwall so I'll do another plug for it. I am using Smoothwall on an old...<let me check>...266MHz pentium II with 128 megs of memory. 128 is actually overkill. Anyways, I am running it with 3 network cards, one for internet, one for DMZ and the third for my internal network. It really works great and it is easy to administrate and gives more options than one of those boxed things.

What i would really like is to get it set up on a USB stick. Those don't cost that much these days and it would remove the noise and heat generation from a harddrive that does almost nothing anyways.

If you go to www.smoothwall.org then you will see that they already have a version 3.0 out in an Alpha release. I don't know how long it will take them to release stable but from what I gather, it will be even easier to set up and administrate. Everything is done through the web like with boxed hardware firewalls, but you can log on with SSH and do stuff manually if you are feeling adventurous.

Anyhow, it is a great product with great documentation and a great forum if you run into problems. It is also free. Highly recommended.
There is a version that just runs on a floppy drive. Not sure what the name is. Just do a search. A floppy would be as quiet as a USB drive.


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Post by purrkur »

It is called Freesco (www.freesco.org). I have used it before but it is far from being as good as Smoothwall.
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Post by KliK »

Billl wrote:
There is a version that just runs on a floppy drive. Not sure what the name is. Just do a search. A floppy would be as quiet as a USB drive.

Billl

floppy drive is not so quiet as the memory stck can be...practicly floppy is sometimes even noiseier than the HDD...
and a memory stick is as quiet as a wisper...the fan are more noiseier than the memory stick!!!
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Post by purrkur »

KliK wrote: floppy drive is not so quiet as the memory stck can be...practicly floppy is sometimes even noiseier than the HDD...
and a memory stick is as quiet as a wisper...the fan are more noiseier than the memory stick!!!
Using Freesco you just use the floppy for the initial upload of data into memory. Once that is done then the floppy isn't used anymore (everything resides in memory), unless you do something like changing your configuration and saving it to disk which is practically never once you have set it up the way you want it.
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Post by Billl »

KliK wrote:
Billl wrote:
There is a version that just runs on a floppy drive. Not sure what the name is. Just do a search. A floppy would be as quiet as a USB drive.

Billl

floppy drive is not so quiet as the memory stck can be...practicly floppy is sometimes even noiseier than the HDD...
and a memory stick is as quiet as a wisper...the fan are more noiseier than the memory stick!!!
Well DUH! Only time the floppy is accessed is when you boot up. After that it ia as noiseless as your USB stick. The point here is he wants the cheapest alternative he can use. I'd be willing to bet that system he has already has a floppy in it. No way your going to beat that price, at least initially. Over the long haul it's hard to beat a router as an inexspensive firewall. It probably will use one tenth the electricity as a pc no matter how stripped down it is. Not to metion all the components that will eventually go bad and have to be replaced. Remember this is an old PC with old parts in it. Hard telling how long before something goes bad. You can buy a brand new router for $30.00 or less if you don't need wireless.


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Post by davd_bob »

How about I just use that new
Quantum-Optical Non-Volatile RAM
for real fast and real quiet operation. :shock:

By the way, purrker, are you a user/member at smoothwall?
As I was perusing I noticed a discussion about 3 months ago on which to choose between a P-II/333 and a Celly/433. I started to drool then remembered Im not signed up yet.
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Post by purrkur »

davd_bob wrote:By the way, purrker, are you a user/member at smoothwall?
As I was perusing I noticed a discussion about 3 months ago on which to choose between a P-II/333 and a Celly/433. I started to drool then remembered Im not signed up yet.
No I am not a member. I haven't really needed membership but I have browsed through their forums on occasion. The documentation that comes with Smoothwall is superb though so I have found pretty much everything I need in there.

As for what is needed, my 266MHz PII with 128 megs of memory is really overkill. I have pretty much everything active except for the built in Proxy (I've got a fast internet connection). When I check my stats I see that about 20MB of memory is being used for apps and when I combine apps, cache and buffer usage (the latter two are temporarily used by the kernel if available), the total memory consumption is 82MB. That is pretty amazing since it is rare that the kernel doesn't use up pretty much all available memory for cache and buffer.

My load averages are all zero which means that the CPU is pretty much doing nothing at all and running the three separate networks, webserver, Snort etc is for this machine as much effort as if you were carrying a fly on your back.

As for harddrive usage, it is using 3.0MB for the boot partition, 151MB for the root partition and 71MB for the log partition. So in theory this "distro" would fit on a 256MB USB stick.

I am looking forward to their 3.0 release which I will be using for sure. Your 120MHz machine would suffice as a smoothwall machine without a doubt.
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