Best processor setup for this job?

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 3:48 am

I recently started working on the folding@home project from Stanford University. It's medical protein testing stuff. They hand out small work packets for individual computers to do.

For more info see www.short-media.com . It's a computer tech website. They have a folding forum and team #93.

The way I understand it, it's extremely processor intensive. It's all mathematical computations.

I've been reading around here for a couple days to try and find answers, but not many seem to be doing the folding work.

So I'd like to know what would be better - a pair of 366's overclocked to 550+, some 433's with the good 6.5 multiplier, or some 533's?

I want to run 2 processors and 1 stick of 128 or 256 memory. Since it would be strictly a folding computer, I'd use either 98 or ME for an operating system. XP uses a lot of system resources.

I don't see much on Pentium 2 or 3 processors. Are BP6's made for Celerons only?

I'll have other faster computers working on it also, but I've been wanting to play with a dual processor MB for some time now.

Do any of the above mentioned Celerons have SSE instructions enabled?

purrkur · Post by **purrkur** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 4:46 am

Tim_k:

Welcome to the forums!

I would like to suggest that you do a bit more reading

1. If you install Windows 98 or ME then you won't be able to use more than one CPU so if you want to run Windows then you need W2k or XP (or NT4).

2. If you have a cpu intensive task then forget everything about fsb and so on. A cpu intensive task will run fastest on the cpu running the fastest speed (given that they are of the same type - like Celerons).

3. BP6 is made for Celerons only. It can be modified to run P3's if you have the know-how. This site is full of guides on how to accomplish this.

4. Celerons used on the BP6 are MMX only. No SSE...

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 11:12 am

More questions based on those answers...

1. I read here that 98 doesn't support dual processors, but I thought ME was new enough to do it. Didn't ME come out after 2000? Well, I can try to find a copy of 2000 or just load XP on it. I like XP, but these CPUs are going to be pretty slow anyhow, and I didn't want to waste processor power on just running the system

Does Knoppix 3.6 support twin CPU's? I have a bootable CD of it. I've played around with it but don't really like it.

2. So... would I be best off to use a pair of 533's? And overclock them as much as I can?

3. I'll look for the guides. I would like to put in some faster P3's, like at LEAST 733+, and overclock them. I think P3's all have SSE enabled. From what I've read, it sounds like I have to put an adapter on top of another adapter to run P3's.

I've read a lot here about the capacitors. Is there a source for quality replacement capacitors? I have a lot of electronics soldering experience and can easily change every capacitor on the board.

There are so many seperate forums here that it's hard to know where to start. I'll look. Got any direct links to good articles I need to see?

purrkur · Post by **purrkur** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 12:12 pm

1. Win ME is just a patched Win98. Even Microsoft has acqnowledged that ME was the worst non-NT version of Windows that they ever made (I am refering to a speech I heard from that idiot Ballmer).

From what you are saying it sounds like if you put XP or W2k on your system your cpu's will be running full time doing OS functions. That isn't exatly right. W2k and especially XP will only mean that getting everything up and running will take longer, responsiveness won't be as good and more memory will be consumed by the OS itself. If you are only going to be using the machine to do one thing then I doubt the OS will be your biggest problem.

As for Knoppix, I am sure it supports dual cpu's even though I haven't tested it. You are the first that I hear saying that he doesn't like it...

2. I am running a pair of 533's at 576MHz (72 MHz fsb). If you are only doing pure cpu intensive tasks then those will be faster than a pair of 366@550MHz. However, a pair of 366 MHz processors might overclock even further, depending on how good your board is, your cooling and so on. YMMV. See other posts in these forums on these exact issues. I think everybody agrees though that 533's are the worst overclockers.

3. You have to do more than just fit an adapter (on top of the ZF socket). The adapter has to be modified, so has the motherboard. You should also "upgrade" the Vtt voltage regulator and some caps (especially if they are bulging/leaking).

You should also take into consideration that this board won't do 133MHz fsb which means that a pair of 733 P3's will be clocked much lower (100MHz or maybe even 110MHz fsb like some have been able to do).

I have no idea where you could buy caps in the U.S.

Last but not least, surf around and read about the different experiences by the different users posting here. I don't want to say that anything in particular is more valuable than everything else here.

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:12 pm

I don't like Knoppix 3.6 much because the Mozilla and Konqueror web browsers it came with have a small but annoying problem. When I type in a URL and go to that site, it's okay. But when I want to change sites, I can't just click on the address bar and type a new address, because it won't highlight the URL and delete it with a stroke of the backspace or any other key. I have to back the old URL off with the backspace key letter by letter before I can type in a new URL.

I'm just so used to IE 6 that I don't even have to think to do things with it. And I never seem to have the problems that other people say they have with it.

3.6 also won't play my video files from my weekly webshow. My shows are all .wmv / Windows Media Player 9 files. The only thing I see in Knoppix that looks like a media player is Xine, and it's useless.

I have gotten Ethereal to capture packets, but I don't know what I'd ever do with them unless I was an I.T. manager or something.

Besides, everything in Knoppix and the web browsers is too dull and monochromatic. I like bright colors.

And while running on Knoppix (bootable CD), I've tried downloading files to my hard drive but it didn't work.

I'll look for more information on the capacitors and processors and other things.

davd_bob · Post by **davd_bob** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 12:46 am

Hope this helps for your project.

I like 366@550 myself for the prime use of a BP6. I got mine to 600(110FSB) but my old hard drives didn't like it and refused to work.

Anyway, I suggest if you have it available use Windows 2000 Profesional SP4. Run the board on 100FSB and if possable use pc133 ram-set to CL2. That way if you do need more resources then you think, you will get the most "bang for the buck" out of your board.

As to modifying your board for pentium-IIIs...I recomend against it. It is a lot harder to find the NEO-S370 adaptors now days. Not to mention the possability of damaging something when you do the soldering and componant changes necessary. If I can talk you out of modifying the board then you probably didn't want to bad enough to finish it anyway.

Good luck.

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 3:07 am

I would modify it for P3's if it was some small change, but it sounds like a lot of work to swap in some P3's. So I'll overclock some Celerons as hard as I can.

I'll get a 128 or 256 MB stick of PC133 memory so that part can handle any overclock the board can put out.

purrkur · Post by **purrkur** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:06 am

Tim_K wrote:I don't like Knoppix 3.6 much because the Mozilla and Konqueror web browsers it came with have a small but annoying problem. When I type in a URL and go to that site, it's okay. But when I want to change sites, I can't just click on the address bar and type a new address, because it won't highlight the URL and delete it with a stroke of the backspace or any other key. I have to back the old URL off with the backspace key letter by letter before I can type in a new URL.

That is not a bug or a problem. It is the way KDE works. I understand that you are used to a certain way of doing things that you don't want to change but that doesn't make GUI's that don't behave like Windows a problem. The good thing about Linux is that KDE is only one of many desktop GUI's available. Don't like it? Then switch to something else.

Tim_K wrote:3.6 also won't play my video files from my weekly webshow. My shows are all .wmv / Windows Media Player 9 files. The only thing I see in Knoppix that looks like a media player is Xine, and it's useless.

Hehehe! Well, I watched one of your shows in Xine without any problems whatsoever. The problem here isn't Xine but Microsoft. Their media format is closed so they can't be used on any other operating system. However, if Xine, mplayer and other media players in Linux have access to the Windows dll's that allow playback of these media formats then they work just fine. You heard me right, using Windows components to play media under Linux. I can also tell you that a Linux media player like Mplayer playing a WMV file uses less resources than the same machine playing it under Windows with a MS media player (any version). Linux is better at playing Windows media files than Windows is using Windows components, even when it is not supposed to be allowed.

In any case, before you say that Xine is useless, get pissed off at Microsoft and tell them to open up their format instead so others can use it properly and legally. It would help their cause because their stuff isn't bad but it is closed from so many angles that nobody wants to touch it, not even with a 10 foot pole. The reason why these dll's are not distributed with Knoppix is because it would be illegal.

Tim_K wrote:And while running on Knoppix (bootable CD), I've tried downloading files to my hard drive but it didn't work.

You are really running into Microsoft problems all the way! You probably have NTFS on your machine which is also closed Microsoft technology. It has been somewhat reverse engineered so that Linux can now easily read NTFS but it is still not very competent at writing to it. Again, this is a Microsoft issue, not Linux. If MS would help out or describe what is needed then no reverse engineering would be needed and working across operating systems would be easy. However, MS doesn't want that.

So as you see, you have really painted yourself into a corner using MS products. This is one of the reasons why I stopped using Windows at home many years ago. I can't see why anybody would want to pay to be so restricted.

davd_bob · Post by **davd_bob** » Fri Dec 03, 2004 11:30 pm

Can anyone recomend a good BOOK on Linux for a starter. I really don't want to learn it the way I learnd DOS...by typing HELP.

I did get pretty good at DOS so hopefully I can Linux up easily. Mandrake sucks for beginners.

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 1:52 pm

What does KDE mean?

purrkur · Post by **purrkur** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 4:43 pm

Tim_K wrote:What does KDE mean?

Tim, Sorry about that. KDE is the graphical interface / environment that is used by Knoppix. KDE is one of the heavyweight GUI's in Linux (Gnome being the other). You mentioned that the graphical stuff in Knoppix didn't appeal to you but fiddle around with it. It is extremely configurable, making Windows feel closed and restrictive. The discussion about KDE has actually revolved around it being too configurable so that the user has too much control.

Davd_bob: I haven't read this book myself because I feel I don't need it but others I know swear by this book called "Moving to Linux (Kiss the BSOD goodbye!)". You can find more info here.

The author is Marcel Gagné, a Canadian guy who is very much into advertising Linux as an alternative to Windows. The book is for the desktop user and how to switch to Linux equivalent programs from Windows programs you are used to. I have spoken to Marcel a few times on the net and he is a good guy, very knowledgeable and helpful. He maintains mailing lists and IRC discussion groups on the net as well (with a dedicated following). You can find more information on all that on his website.

I can also add that Marcel has written two other books (which you can read about on his page) and that he writes a colunm in the monthly mag Linux Journal which has been voted the biggest favorite in that particular mag by its readers four years in a row now. This has moved the publisher to set up a new mag called Tuxmagazine.com of which he is editor (and rightly so). That mag is geared towards new Linux users (read: Former Windows users that are fed up I guess).

davd_bob · Post by **davd_bob** » Sat Dec 04, 2004 10:50 pm

Thanks purrkur,
But What-O-What will I do with out the BSOD. Does Linux at lease have a screen saver that resembles it so I will feel at home until I am ready to make the break?

headseed · Post by **headseed** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 1:01 am

I switch around on the DC projects every so often, but it just so happens that I am curently deployed on F@H. Team 14, Ars Technica Team Egg Roll.

http://folding.extremeoverclocking.com/ ... s=&u=20009

No BP6s currently on anything right now, I was using one 2x366@550 on the D2OL project, it was fairly slow, but worth running.

I have a dual P3 box with 850s at 1.2ghz (142 fsb), and it produces 0.3-0.5 points per hour more on average over my 2.3ghz tbred machine. I am impressed!

purrkur · Post by **purrkur** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 8:23 am

davd_bob wrote:Thanks purrkur,
But What-O-What will I do with out the BSOD. Does Linux at lease have a screen saver that resembles it so I will feel at home until I am ready to make the break?

Yeah, there is a BSOD screensaver of course

davd_bob · Post by **davd_bob** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 12:23 pm

purrkur,
Moving to Linux(KBOSDG) is on my Christmas list. One of the IT guys at work uses Red Hat and will make me a copy. Any comments on Red Hat?

Tim_k,
how goes your BP6 configuration project?
David

purrkur · Post by **purrkur** » Sun Dec 05, 2004 2:52 pm

davd_bob wrote:purrkur,
Moving to Linux(KBOSDG) is on my Christmas list. One of the IT guys at work uses Red Hat and will make me a copy. Any comments on Red Hat?

Not really. Do you know what version you will be getting?

When I started out with Linux I was a Slackware guy just like most others. I was in the States when RedHat released version 5.2 so I bought that and ran with it for some time. I jumped between various versions of Redhat and Slack for some time before learning Debian and falling in love with the "Install once upgrade forever" attitude. Once I got myself a powerful Athlon I jumped on the Gentoo wagon because I wanted to learn more and besides, their forums and the help you get there is second to none in quality.

I do a bit of work on both RedHat (their real stuff that costs - not Fedora) as well as the SuSE enterprise stuff as well. They are nice distributions but when I try an RPM based distro I always start longing for Debian and Gentoo for their ease of use. The RPM based distros have improved but I still find them lacking.

Here is the key question for you: This guy who will be getting you those CD's, do you think he will help you out if you run into trouble? I think the most valuable thing is when you run into issues you don't understand then getting somebody to go through the ins and outs is usually the best method of learning. If he won't help out then let me know. I have on two occasions logged into machines (BP6's running Linux) and helped individuals out that have run into trouble and contacted me through this website. I will gladly help you out with your questions and problems if you have any. Just post and wait for an answer

Who knows, maybe it would be a grand idea to set up a Linux installation howto for the BP6? I wouldn't mind but time is my biggest problem as usual

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 1:19 am

I just bought a BP6 on eBay for $52. It has a pair of 300 Celerons with it, but I'm looking for a couple of 533's with identical stepping codes ( SL3FZ ) and PPGA sockets according to the Intel website.

There's a computer show in town this weekend, but I'm not sure I'd find 2 of the same kind.

I'm thinking of getting a copy of Windows 2000 at the show. I looked last month, and I thought they were INSANE, wanting $80-$100 for it! And I'm not even sure if that was the full or upgrade version.

This computer will be used 99% for folding@home for Team #93 short-media.

I'll have to find a 128 or 256 memory stick also, and a small IDE hard drive.

davd_bob · Post by **davd_bob** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 8:45 pm

Before you go for the 533s try OC the 300 a bit. If you blow one...well you are already planing to replace them. Those 300 may be the most over-clockable cpu made for an un-modified BP6.

What size HDD did you have in mind? I will gladly barter for those 300s.

Tim_K · Post by **Tim_K** » Wed Dec 08, 2004 9:34 pm

What do the 300's have, a 4.5 multiplier? Even at 110 FSB that's only 495 Mhz.

From what I've read here, since the processors will be used for folding, which is all heavy mathematical calculations, I'd be better off starting with 500 or 533 processors, then overclocking those as much as possible.

Yes, I'll trade the twin 300's for a hard drive. An IDE drive, since that's what BP6's take. Size isn't too important, maybe 3-4 GB or bigger.

Got any PC133 memory sticks laying around? I'll need a 128 or 256. Preferably a 256.

Email me at loudmouthtim@hotmail.com for trade details. I won't have the motherboard until next week. The seller has to get my money order then ship the motherboard to me.